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Main => Handmade Artists' Shop (HAFshop) => Topic started by: RiverRockArts on February 05, 2013, 11:15:48 AM

Title: Copyrght violations
Post by: RiverRockArts on February 05, 2013, 11:15:48 AM
A question...what does this site do when someone is listing items that are copyrighted?  It crossed my mind when I saw some recent listings that were copyrighted and the  listings did not specify that the seller had the rights to sell them.  I would not want the copyright holder(s) to come against this site because of that.  I don't know if they hold it against the site itself or go after the seller, but I would not want this site to be at risk because of someone listing items that have been copyrighted by others.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Blue Highways on February 05, 2013, 11:18:50 AM
I sorta wondered that same thing. I don't use licensed fabrics for my books for that reason. I have a friend of mine that makes critter cage liners from fleece and Etsy told her she had to remove all the ones that were infringing on copyrights
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: RiverRockArts on February 05, 2013, 01:06:11 PM
I have seen many items on Etsy that are copyrighted, and they don't seem to be doing anything about them.  I have seen items on this site that are copyrighted too and wonder if the sellers realize they can't sell the items unless they pay for a license from the copyright holder.  Not everyone realizes this, especially the hobbyists that are not running a business. 
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: beadthing on February 05, 2013, 08:47:32 PM
Are we talking about like Disney characters etc.  Just curious.  I have seen others sellling photographs that belong to other people and wondered if that sort of thing is copyrighted.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: RiverRockArts on February 06, 2013, 06:51:54 AM
From what I understand, the law says that the person who took the picture is the automatic copyright holder, but to really protect them, some photographers may get their pictures copyrighted. 

The Disney characters used on fabric, drawings, etc. are copyrighted by Disney, and they take that very seriously.  I have read that Disney will come after someone with the big guns if they use their copyrighted material.  They are not one to cross.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: trusk4u on March 09, 2013, 11:32:32 AM
It's a tough one that's for sure. Best to not mess around with it. I have one seller in my store who had to remove her "Pandora" style bracelet from her Etsy shop for that very reason. Nothing about it is pandora. I recognized the beads from Michael's.  I guess that company is really coming down on anything that even remotely resembles their bracelets. I won't be making them because I DON'T like them.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: CherokeeLodge on March 16, 2013, 07:16:54 AM
I've found that usually they only remove items when the rights owner tells them to.  Otherwise, they claim they really can't since they aren't the rights owner.


I know it doesn't make sense because it does violate copyright laws.   And you can't sell anything that's against the law to.  ::sigh::
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: MainelyNaturals on March 19, 2013, 03:54:17 PM
I have often wondered about that too. There are many sellers on Etsy using copyrighted material. Search for bottle cap images and you will find any cartoon figure out there- on Ebay too. I made pokemon and littlest pet shop ones for my kids school fair- but did not sell them.
A few years ago I had to have someone stop using MY trademarked biz name.
I would think the company would go after the seller- not the website. But there should be a clause somewhere to protect the owners from the sellers not following the law.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: CherokeeLodge on March 21, 2013, 09:34:14 PM
I could have sworn that there was a blurb in their TOUs that states that as a seller, you hold Etsy harmless for anything you sell on their site.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Larissa on March 21, 2013, 11:33:03 PM
Here's the thing about "hold harmless" clauses.  They're just contracts between the seller & the venue.  So here's what happens:

Seller lists copyrighted material.
Copyright holder hires attorney.  Attorney sends cease & desist and probably demands payment for use.
If seller doesn't comply, attorney sues on behalf of copyright holder, and because attorney has to do his job properly, he sues the seller AND the selling venue - and rightly so.  The contract between the seller and the venue holds no bearing over a third party (the copyright  holder and his attorney).
Selling venue has to hire an attorney to defend itself, and invokes the "hold harmless" clause, filing a third-party complaint against the seller as a third-party defendant as well as a defendant in the initial action by the copyright holder.

So what you're likely to end up with is:
Copyright holder vs. seller & venue AND
Venue vs. seller

And the venue may very well win against the seller.  Meanwhile its expended time, energy, and money defending itself.  Seller may even have to reimburse venue for expenses, but the venue will never recoup the time spent.  Plus there could be negative publicity.  Plus, even with a judgment against seller, it doesn't mean the venue will ever actually see reimbursement if the seller is your average, small-time, less-than-wealthy individual.

So it actually behooves the venue to do its best to stop its sellers from carrying such items.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: YankeeBurrowCreations on March 22, 2013, 12:25:19 PM
they way I look at it, it is not only illegal, it's immoral...just not the right thing to do...so I never purchase anything that may (or may not) be copyrighted.  I am also very careful with the patterns I use that I am released to sell the finished product, and I give credit in the description.
Debbi
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Beth on March 22, 2013, 08:44:49 PM
You know, it is very tough at times, even in the card making business.  Just recently, I bought some single sheets of paper online because I loved the images on them.  When they arrived and I really LOOKED at them, I discovered they had Secret Garden on them, so can't use them except for personal use.  (Christmas gifts I guess)


When I first started making cards, I would buy paper I liked and thought would make nice looking cards.  I sold many before learning about Angel Policies companies have.  So I have lots of books of paper I cannot use to make salable cards...kind of sucks.


Angel Policies are a bear.  Some are lengthy, some are cut and dry while others have a huge gray area that could go either way.  I try and read them, if they have a policy, before making anything.

Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Larissa on March 25, 2013, 11:56:21 PM
Angel policies?
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: CherokeeLodge on March 26, 2013, 07:23:07 AM
What just made sad is I logged in to see all the products under recently listed were copyright infringements.  Well known characters from well known movies.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: RiverRockArts on March 26, 2013, 12:49:05 PM
I saw them too, but I didn't know they were from movies.. 
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Beth on March 26, 2013, 07:41:04 PM
Angel policies?


Angel Policies are kind of like the trademark policies.  If you work with paper, cutters, punches, really anything to do with cards... on their websites, they have their angel policies posted. 


And like I said earlier, some paper companies only allow you to use their paper for personal use, scrapbooking, etc.  You cannot sell things made with their paper.  And yet some allow you to make "X number" of them to sell but no more than that.


Other things, like punches, especially Martha Stewart and K&Company and almost all rubber stamp companies...can't use theirs at all for cards you plan on selling. 


I understand some of it and like I said earlier, there are many "Gray" areas where the language could be interpreted many different ways. 



Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: CherokeeLodge on March 27, 2013, 09:03:36 AM
Interesting to know.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Larissa on March 27, 2013, 09:14:11 AM
That's kind of... lame.  I mean, I can see recognizable characters.  I wouldn't use Disney paper to make a card to sell. But with something less identifiable it seems kind of silly.  It also seems like these companies would seriously increase their sales if they allowed the sale of items made from their products.

As an aside, I find it amusing that an ex-con presumes to lay down rules for others.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: trusk4u on March 28, 2013, 11:38:42 AM
I agree that some of it is quite lame. I really wonder how many people actually know that they shouldn't be doing that stuff. Is there something on the packge when they purchase whatever product that states "You can not sell any item made using this product." Seriously.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Roziespearls on May 18, 2013, 01:04:16 PM
I was just reading this and I have bibs and burp towel ( winnie the Pooh ) for sale. I'll tell you why in didn't remove them from my Etsy shop. I read a post in Etsykids that said Etsy had changed there policy on copyright. They are basically allowing shops to sell but, the seller is solely respondsable for any action. I left the items listedin both shops. I think i will just deactivate everything. All that material and money gone to waste.  :(


Tress
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Beth on May 18, 2013, 01:06:38 PM
It's never wasted.  You can always give them as gifts :)
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Roziespearls on May 18, 2013, 01:13:50 PM
I was just thinking about making them into pouches. We give away a pouch with every sale. I can do that right?


Tress
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: YankeeBurrowCreations on May 20, 2013, 09:57:57 AM
Larissa... :laugh:
Beth...I just don't see how a supplier of tools can tell you how to use the tool after you pay for it...just plain stupid.  >:)
Roziespearls....I can't imagine giving away the pouches would be an infringement.  You're not making money on it.  But maybe you can't advertise it??? ???
Debbi
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Roziespearls on May 20, 2013, 10:13:00 AM
The whole thing is just plain stupid. I can see copying a persons product know matter how big but buying material from a shopping center that you don't even want to buy from and making something. I see nothing wrong with that. These big companies are more worried about money then any thing. Sueing someone over a $3.00 item. Worried their not gonna get their what .25 cents.


Tress
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: trusk4u on May 20, 2013, 01:15:21 PM
The whole thing is just plain stupid. I can see copying a persons product know matter how big but buying material from a shopping center that you don't even want to buy from and making something. I see nothing wrong with that. These big companies are more worried about money then any thing. Sueing someone over a $3.00 item. Worried their not gonna get their what .25 cents.


Tress

Frankly, Winnie the Pooh is everywhere and I don't believe they are as crazy about the copyright stuff like Disney is. I would leave them listed but keep an eye out on them.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Beth on May 20, 2013, 01:31:25 PM
Hate to break it to you Teresa, but Disney owns Pooh.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Roziespearls on May 20, 2013, 02:24:31 PM
Hi Beth, I know they own Pooh seems like Disney owns everything. Before we moved to Arkansas Randy and I both lived 30 min. from Disney. Randy was born there and live lived there for almost 25 yrs. My best Friend works for them used to get free tickets all the time. They come after a person for copyright but they are good to their employees. I'll never forget this for one year they run a insentive anyone willing to work overtime would earn free meal tickets to any Disney Restraunt. Paula worked on the average of 20hrs over a week. Earning her 2 tickets a week. Tickets worth up to $300.00 for two. She took me to a wonderful restraunt the bill came to $250.00 and some change. including the tip. We ended up going back with my Dad. This was right after my mom passed about 10 yrs ago. I guess my point is that they gave all those free meals away but, they might go after the little man over a few dollars. It really doesn't make much business sense does it? I deleted all the listing and I'm just going to leave it that way.


Tress
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: trusk4u on May 20, 2013, 05:09:53 PM
Hate to break it to you Teresa, but Disney owns Pooh.

You're right. I forgot about that. :-[
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Roziespearls on May 20, 2013, 06:30:26 PM
No worries Hope you liked my story. I was bord so thought i would share Alittle story. You she earned 40 tickets that year. Just so everyone knows the food and service was wonderful. We actually save have of each meal for the Boys. They stayed home. We each got an app. salad main source and dessert. We had the best time. Took my mind off losing my mom. hope everyone is having a good evening. Wrestling in 30 min.  8)


Tress
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Larissa on May 22, 2013, 08:52:19 PM
Does Disney own ALL Pooh, or just the modern/well-known imagery?  There's classic Pooh too, which is from the old book illustrations.  And technically it seems that someone could rework Pooh into their own image/design/concept if Disney doesn't own the NAME "Pooh."

On an aside, I got a call a couple days ago from someone who wanted me to face paint at a party, but come as Minnie Mouse.  Um... NO.  Disney will absolutely go after entertainers who do that.  Not on your life is it worth it to me.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Roziespearls on May 23, 2013, 06:51:09 AM
I found this



Question #90: Who Owns the Copyright to Winnie-the-Pooh?


 Answer #90:
A. A. Milne left the rights to Pooh, and his other characters, to five beneficiaries: The Garrick Club, Westminster School, The Royal Literary Fund, the A. A. Milne Family and the E. H. Shepard Family. We understand that Mrs. Milne sold the film rights to Disney in 1961. Christopher Robin Milne sold his rights to the other copyright holders before his death in 1996.


Sometime around 1998, the Garrick Club sold Disney the rights to all of A. A. Milne's characters until 2026 (when the copyright expires). On March 4, 2001, the Sunday Times of London reported that Disney paid an estimated $340-to-$350 million for the rights to the royalty stream, as well as future use of the characters in any media, from the A. A. Milne Trust.


Disney first bought rights to Winnie-The-Pooh (enabling it to use the Pooh characters freely in movies, television shows, theme parks and merchandising) in 1961 and has renewed those rights every year, paying twice-yearly royalties to a group of rights holders. Disney now has the rights to the Winnie-The-Pooh until the copyright expires in 2026. The copyright holders received lump-sum payments for their interests, rather than having to collect their money a bit at a time over the next 25 years. They will retain the publishing rights to the original A.A. Milne book.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Uniqlets on May 25, 2013, 08:20:44 AM
They went after a daycare center who had a wall painted with some of their characters.  The Litigious World of Disney. 
Does Disney own ALL Pooh, or just the modern/well-known imagery?  There's classic Pooh too, which is from the old book illustrations.  And technically it seems that someone could rework Pooh into their own image/design/concept if Disney doesn't own the NAME "Pooh."

On an aside, I got a call a couple days ago from someone who wanted me to face paint at a party, but come as Minnie Mouse.  Um... NO.  Disney will absolutely go after entertainers who do that.  Not on your life is it worth it to me.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Roziespearls on May 25, 2013, 09:26:37 AM
I can't believe this. I thought copyright was just selling guess not. About 2 months ago I found my self in the preop area waiting emergency surgery for a hernia. They put me in the only kids room they have. They use it for preop holding/recovery. plastered all over the walls were paints of Disney characters. They said it helps calm the kidos. So, what that means is disney can go after the hospital. That's just not right.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Uniqlets on May 26, 2013, 12:36:05 AM
They could, but one thing they don't want is bad publicity.  Can you imagine the headlines, "Disney sues to take Mickey away from sick children"?
I can't believe this. I thought copyright was just selling guess not. About 2 months ago I found my self in the preop area waiting emergency surgery for a hernia. They put me in the only kids room they have. They use it for preop holding/recovery. plastered all over the walls were paints of Disney characters. They said it helps calm the kidos. So, what that means is disney can go after the hospital. That's just not right.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Larissa on May 26, 2013, 09:54:03 AM
Honestly?  I wouldn't put it past them.  And one thing about Disney is that their employees, past and present, are incredibly loyal and all over the place.  All it takes is for one to see that preop room and report back.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Roziespearls on May 26, 2013, 10:59:38 AM
Randy he doesn't like Disney because he was born and raised in Kissimmee. All I heard about for years is how Disney took all that beautiful land. land where as a kid he would fish on. It as all dirt roads back them until Disney. Maybe should tell them. I don't know maybe it would be better to mind my on bees wax. Randy thinks i should. I worked in the operating room for 14 years in Orlando. My career ended over night do to a ankle injury. I loved it cried for weeks after my Dr. said I couldn't do any stand up job. I'm torn because I fill a need to protect the operating room staff from this nonsence. They are so some of the nicest people i've ever had the pleasure of meeting. Even my Dr. meet him in the emergency room over the phone. I can't even begin to tell you how comfortable he made me. Anyway I'm gonna have to think about this.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Uniqlets on May 26, 2013, 11:35:40 PM
Not all their employees.  I worked for Disney when they took over ABC.  They are a union busting monster.  They also started forcing non-union people into contracts that gave the company plenty of leverage and the employees none.  The cutbacks were awful.  Not a loyal ex-employee.
Honestly?  I wouldn't put it past them.  And one thing about Disney is that their employees, past and present, are incredibly loyal and all over the place.  All it takes is for one to see that preop room and report back.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Larissa on May 27, 2013, 12:41:14 AM
Yikes.  No kidding.

Maybe it's more the ones who worked at the theme parks.  I dunno, I just know a few who are all "WOOHOO, DISNEY!"  One girl I know just applied to be a Disney vacation adviser because she's so into it still.

Me, I kind of hate the company... but always liked Disney World.  It keeps me torn.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Roziespearls on May 27, 2013, 06:53:03 AM
My best friend still works for Disney. in fact she only has a few more years until fully invested. She works in Reservations it's really good pay.  They did cut everyones overtime and made alot of changes which did effect her. She works 2 jobs now and been working both jobs for some time, and yes she is in love with the place. It all about Disney. What do you think I should do tell the OR superviser so at least the hospital will know or should i mind my own peas and q's. what would ya all do.


Tress
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: MakinTheBest on February 06, 2015, 07:39:30 PM
It is not just Disney....Taylor Swift is suing Etsy sellers for trademark phrases. http://www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/taylor-swifts-lawyers-have-threatened-etsy-sellers 


I've never been a fan of trademarking words that are common language, but some of the comments are downright funny.  The ones that claim that it isn't fair are the first ones that would have a hissy fit if someone "steals" one of their ideas and "copies" it....sorry, off my soapbox now.... :police:
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: MsMartyD on February 13, 2015, 10:13:04 AM
I am not a Taylor swift  fan,  I don't think I've even heard her sing.  I have my collection of CDs which I've been  enjoying for eons.   I do think that Taylor and many other  performers have, as my daddy used to say,  gotten too big for their britches.  How much money does she need?  Are record sales  important enough for an otherwise attractive young woman to make an ass of herself in front of the whole world?   I personally find her behavior ill bred and boorish.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Larissa on February 13, 2015, 11:09:36 AM
Actually, Taylor Swift is one of the few stars who's NOT too big for her britches, assy, or boorish.  She's a total sweetheart.

She's one of the few who's never been in the media for drinking, drugging, being lewd or obnoxious, fighting, or ANY other bad behavior.  The worst people have found to say about her is that she dated a lot in her late teens & early twenties.  Know what?  SO DID I.  So do most people; the rest of us just don't have the spotlight on us.

And she is better to her fans than anyone else on the planet.  She's been known to connect with fans on social media & then just call them up to say hi or show up at their houses to give them gifts.  Just because.

As artists, we are all entitled to hang on to our trademarks and copyrights, and we should all respect those of others.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: trusk4u on February 13, 2015, 07:52:26 PM
Taylor Swift is a great role model for young girls and young women I think. She is polite, well spoken, cares about her fans, and is quite the philanthropist too.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Larissa on February 13, 2015, 08:20:50 PM
Here, check this out:  http://www.people.com/people/mobile/article/0,,20873068,00.html

And by the way, they were talking about the lawsuit on the country station here (Eric heard it), and someone pointed out that she may be intending in the future to develop & market her own line of clothing and other products with the trademarked phrases from her songs, so it totally makes sense that she'd need to protect them from other manufacturers.  Even small handmade ones.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: MakinTheBest on February 14, 2015, 03:51:14 PM
I agree that the artist needs to protect himself but for some reason, owning phrases that are common just seems strange to me. 
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: trusk4u on February 14, 2015, 04:08:59 PM
I agree that the artist needs to protect himself but for some reason, owning phrases that are common just seems strange to me.

I would tend to agree with you. I think in the case of Taylor Swift they are well known lyrics that are associated with her. It seems that in cases like this, there is a lot of room for interpretation.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: MsMartyD on February 14, 2015, 07:15:31 PM
I agree with the trademark  on clothing...   That should  be protected  and should  she ever write a book  it should be.   But  the songs that everyone sings and that she wrote for people to sing and enjoy should fall into another category.  Just my feelings....    I'm sure there are legal aspects which I know nothing about.   How many times have  we seen references to Over the Rainbow....   to name only one....  referenced in a pillow case or  room decor for a kid?   
OK  I'll hush  now....   I just want to make sure  you folks understand I have nothing against her.  My grand girl  is one of her biggest fans.
Title: Re: Copyrght violations
Post by: Larissa on February 14, 2015, 10:04:53 PM
Well, "Over the Rainbow" was written in 1939.  The copyright has expired if it wasn't renewed:  https://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm

So that's a very different thing.

Taylor Swift wrote her songs (and SHE wrote her songs) to entertain people.  Sure, it's fun when the audience sings along, and I'm sure she loves that.  But that's not for the profit of the people singing.  If someone re-recorded her songs and sold them, they'd be in violation and she not only could sue, she SHOULD sue.  Same as I can paint Winnie the Pooh on my own personal beehive for my own use and enjoyment, but I cannot - and NEVER WOULD - sell my paintings or drawings of those characters.  They're not mine to sell.  Taylor Swift's song lyrics are NOT ANYONE ELSE'S TO SELL.

Sorry, but she's in the right here, and you're just dead wrong on this one.  I like you a lot, but you are.

And she really doesn't deserve being disparaged.  This is a girl with an incredible work ethic (she took up guitar when she was 12 and practiced until her fingers bled), talent (she's got a beautiful voice and has written most, if not all, of her own songs BY HERSELF), grace and class (she never, ever, even in videos wears skanky clothing; everything is beautiful and classy), and heart and generosity (described in my earlier post about her).  This girl is the best possible role model on the planet for young girls in this decade, if not century so far. 

I applaud her for not letting people take advantage of her, even her "fans" who are ripping her off; she absolutely, positively shouldn't.  And whether they see it that way or not, they ARE ripping her off.  It's theft and it's wrong.

I don't see any difference in writing songs versus books.  They're her words. Hers, no one else's.  They come from her mind and heart and she poured herself into them, and nothing on earth makes a book more worthy than a song.  The laws are exactly the same.  End of story.